use the bible as authority

use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:31 am

I am not a Christian, however, there is no better authority for how we should treat one another than the bible, and Christians greatly out number non Christians, so if we want Christians to work with us, or at least allow us to stay, we must turn to their authority, and be sure they are aware of what their book of authority says.

One of my favorite Christian sayings is, "There but the grace of go I" Others are, "Do unto others as you would have done to you." of Jesus said, "As you do to the least of them you do to me."

Christians formed communes when Rome was falling.

Matthew 19:16-24

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus described "money changers" Matthew 21:12-14, Mark 11:15, and John 2:14-16. The text in Matthew reads as follows:

12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, 13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. 14 And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.

Jesus gave an account of the Last Judgment in Matthew 25:31-46, i

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory; 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats; 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 For I was hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in; 36 Naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal.

Leviticus 25:35-38: "If one [...] becomes poor [...] help him [...] so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God [...] You must not lend him money at interest or sell him food at a profit. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God." and Acts 4:32-35, "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had [...] there were no needy persons among them [...] the money [...] was distributed to anyone as he had need." As well as Acts 2:42-47, "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching [...] to the breaking of bread [...] everyone was filled with awe [...] all the believers were together and had everything in common [...] they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they [...] ate together with glad and sincere hearts [...] "

What to know what you can do? Turn your electricity off for a week and think about it. That will give you a better understanding of some of the problems the homeless are dealing with, and why they are not doing as well as you . I am sure you will think of something you can do when it is your problem to function without without everything we take for granted. And remember, "There but for the grace of God go I".
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:30 am

Would people please say if this is a good idea or a bad idea and why?
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby Ross » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:08 pm

it is something to consider. Bad nor good. although when you say with such authority, "there is no better authority for how we should treat one another than the bible" . First . while possibly embraced by most Christians as Accurate and true, it is never the less an extremely opinionated point of view. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, Taoism and many more spiritual paths, agnostic, as well as many atheist paths, all share the "golden rules" from my own ignorant understanding of these teachings. Why do you find these truths only in Christianity? And why with such authority?
Ross
 
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:17 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby emeraldopalite » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:22 pm

Personally, I'm not into using the bible as an authority on anything.
User avatar
emeraldopalite
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:41 pm
Location: Eugene

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:14 am

Ross2 wrote:it is something to consider. Bad nor good. although when you say with such authority, "there is no better authority for how we should treat one another than the bible" . First . while possibly embraced by most Christians as Accurate and true, it is never the less an extremely opinionated point of view. Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, Taoism and many more spiritual paths, agnostic, as well as many atheist paths, all share the "golden rules" from my own ignorant understanding of these teachings. Why do you find these truths only in Christianity? And why with such authority?


Because in this country Christians are well organized and have a lot of power, and Protestants accept the bible as authority, and that unites them behind us when they become aware of that.

Early Christians were as much against usury as Muslims are, and this seriously retarded economic growth. Calvinism, a branch of Christianity, and foundation for Puritanism, made capitalism possible. A big reason for Puritans coming to north America was economic freedom! England was autocratic and backed by the Church of England, and had many laws protecting is class system, and I think we should discuss this and make a big deal out of being under the Washington, Jefferson bridge, but was I slapped hard for saying so.

I believed it was possible to get the churches behind us and keep the camp site, but we are running out of time, and I think it is too late.
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:25 am

emeraldopalite wrote:Personally, I'm not into using the bible as an authority on anything.


:lol: A lot of people would agree with you, but that attitude won't get anyone very far, because it is intolerant and uncooperative. Those are human nature problems that Christianity addresses, and when my Christian neighbor made an unkind remark about me being with "those bums" I told her she is a hippocrit. The next time our paths crossed she felt so bad she kept her eyes to the ground. At least she felt bad about her unkind approach to others, and I think that is a social benefit. When people are hostile and intolerant and have no sense of belong to a group that tells them to be different, a bad problem gets worse. I must say, I feel very bruised and discouraged attempting to share my ideas, and achieve something, with people in the movement who are intolerant and uncooperative.

To get others to see our point of view, it works best to start from their side of the bridge and walk them over the bridge. Christianity is a point of view that can be very helpful to our cause, and they have a huge and powerful army. Spitting in their face, instead of getting them on our side, might not be the best way to go.
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby emeraldopalite » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:44 am

Sorry to offend, but you were asking my thoughts. I think the bible has been used to negatively manipulate people and exacerbates homophobia and sexism. Plus, I'm an agnostic myself. As a literary text, it's quite amazing. But, for truth seekers, there is so much to question. I'm all for the religious rights of everyone, and think if a Christian group wants to support the OE with the bible- GREAT! However, it would be disastrous for OE to embrace the bible as a guiding text in my opinion.
User avatar
emeraldopalite
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:41 pm
Location: Eugene

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:44 pm

My biggest problem with the bible is it gives God a supernatural nature that is not conducive to democracy. For me, that is extremely problematic, because I strongly believe if there is any hope, it is the democracy we can have because of religion. In fact, this might be the worst problem in the whole world. I spend a good deal of time on the internet arguing against the notion of the God of Abraham who rules by whim, and like a human or ancient Gods, can be pleased or displeased. But Christians are well organized and the movement had much to gain by showing them how the directions in the bible that they accept as God's authority, and the some Occupy goals parallel. However, now this nothing but intellectual bantering, because it is too late to take action.
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby JerryB » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:24 am

Instead of using the Bible I would say use the teachings of Christ. Or of Buddha. For the 1st 300 years Christians lived lives of peace in communes where they shared their wealth and cared for the poor.

The teachings of Jesus were totally different than the Jewish scriptures that became the Old Testament, and there is some evidence that he received Buddhist training to obtain these radically different ideas.

After Christianity became the official religion of Rome and was merged with Mithrism, Sol Invictus, and Judism, the religion was different and became about power. The religion was used as a way to keep the masses under control.

When you call for using the bible as authority you are asking to use passages in the Old Testament that called for stoning women to death if they were raped or stoning your son to death if he gives you any lip. The old Testament uses the same sacred texts that Islam uses to justify their outrageous cruelty. http://www.evilbible.com/
JerryB
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:20 pm

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:56 am

:D Make my day! I love discussing such matters. I think there is a difference between using the bible as authority, and saying everyone has to believe everything the bible says. That is, to say "this is what you believe God says is so, so you have no argument with me, unless you want to argue God is wrong". Is different saying, "You have to believe the God of Abraham is one true God, because the bibles says so". Get the difference? No is walking someone from his/her side of the bridge to your side. It is, "Look, see you believe as I do". And the other is trying to force someone in a direction opposite to what s/he believes.

The old testament has useful verses. I am not an expert on them, but for sure the one about forgiving people debt after 7 years was practiced until rather recently and was more important to protecting us than I realized! Banks would not be giving people loans and pushing credits on them, without collateral, if debts were forgiven in 7 years. Effectively, this biblical law, protected us and our whole economy. Instead of fighting against the whole bible, we should be embracing it to protect our liberty and our economy. Please consider that.

If people want to discuss religion we should be talking about Zoroastrianism as well. Mithrism is a branch of Zoroastrianism and made slavery as Christians practiced it impossible. It is related to the liberty cap in Rome and therefore the Christian fight for liberty as well. May be we can branch from Occupy into an organization that takes up the fight for liberty, using religion to support the fight for liberty as our forefathers did. :( Please, we had liberal education and those who received a liberal education understood the bible abstractly. Since education for technology replaced liberal education, people began taking the bible literally. This has always been a problem for Protestants. How people are educated before the reading the bible is very important. Our liberty highly depends on a board education, and our children are no longer getting that education, so we are becoming more and more like what we defended our democracy against.

The simple communal living of early Christians is very important to what we are doing, and we should increase awareness of this. There is no doubt Jesus opposed the power we (our ignorant society) have embraced. There is no doubt this power destroys individual liberty and power.
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:23 am

Leviticus 25:35-36 ESV / 76 helpful votes

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. Take no interest from him or profit, but fear your God, that your brother may live beside you.

Matthew 25:34-40 ESV / 52 helpful votes

Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ...

Isaiah 58:6-8 ESV / 41 helpful votes

“Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh? Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.

Luke 14:13-14 ESV / 34 helpful votes

But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”

Luke 10:30-37 ESV / 24 helpful votes

Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. ...

Genghis Khan thought the people of the cities, the most immoral of all because some were wealthy and others having nothing at all, leading to lying and stealing in the struggle for survival. Among the Mongols, a stranger was feed and sheltered, because in their harsh climate, failure to feed and shelter someone could lead to that person's death. Also because of the harshness of the climate and blinding snow storms, anyone could become the person looking for shelter and food. Genghis Khan is best known for leading the Mongols, who slaughter entire villages and even large cities that did not pay tribute, but the other side is a morality we can admire. They took slaves and then treated them as equals. When humans are protected from the elements of nature, their morality changes. We insist everyone must live, but then treat the living very badly, and protect the commons for ourselves, while forcing out "those people".
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby cswriter1 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:27 am

We can define religion as away of life organized around certain experiences and convictions. It is individual bodies organized into a community. They are not organized around money or politics, but around the experience of ultimate power. They in fact create their community and maintain it with shared convictions, traditions and customs, and then they experience the community they have created, and its conflict with those who exist outside of their community.

Occupy shares much in common with the God of Abraham religions, but it was not organized before forming camps, and these camps failed, because of internal problems they could not organize against. Now Occupy is stumbling in search of a set of principles that everyone can agree upon. It would useful if there was greater understanding of what Occupy Eugene is attempting to do now, and what this has to do with growing up in a Christian country, with shared experiences and convictions, instead of creating a separate community with a false notion of differences, and there creating a weaker us verses them community, as opposed to a united community coming out of a Christian dominated democracy.

Whatever, it is my intention to speak with churches and I could use help connecting with them. Considering I may be risking eviction to shelter Kathy when she her operation, I am in a hurry to connect with the churches. My argument is, I believe I must shelter Kathy because her life is in danger if she returns to street too soon after surgery, and I am sure the bible tells us to protect her. She is not the only people homeless because of cancer and we must have a home for these people, and together we can manifest one. BUT WE have start acting like "we the people" and stop dividing into us and them, and then justifying why we ignore the needs of "those people". It is just wrong to ignore the needs of those people who sincerely need us.
Only when democracy is defended in the classroom is it defended.
cswriter1
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:03 am

Re: use the bible as authority

Postby JerryB » Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:52 pm

The churches have done much good and you are right that they may be Kathy's best hope. Dan Bryant and the rest of the people on the task force are good people. Jenny is a good contact person.

I wouldn't object to using Buddhism or the early Christianity but I don't see much difference between the Torah, the Old Testament or the Koran because they are all based on the same writings about the cruel and vindictive God of Abraham that chose an obscure violent Mideastern tribe as the chosen people.

I object to the idea that people need to be coerced with the threat of hell to do the right thing. People should do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.
All religions have the same moral compass, similar to the Golden Rule, because that is what is best for society.

George Lakkoff says that there are two world views, the Strict Father and the Nurturing Family world views.

Conservatives subscribe to the "strict father" system:

The conservative worldview, the strict father model, assumes that the world is dangerous and difficult and that children are born bad and must be made good. The strict father is the moral authority who supports and defends the family, tells his wife what to do, and teaches his kids right from wrong. The only way to do that is through painful discipline — physical punishment that by adulthood will become internal discipline. The good people are the disciplined people. Once grown, the self-reliant, disciplined children are on their own. Those children who remain dependent (who were spoiled, overly willful, or recalcitrant) should be forced to undergo further discipline or be cut free with no support to face the discipline of the outside world.


Meanwhile, the liberal worldview could be described by the "nurturing parent model":

...it assumes that the world is basically good and can be made better and that one must work toward that. Children are born good; parents can make them better. Nurturing involves empathy, and the responsibility to take care of oneself and others for whom we are responsible. On a larger scale, specific policies follow, such as governmental protection in form of a social safety net and government regulation, universal education (to ensure competence, fairness), civil liberties and equal treatment (fairness and freedom), accountability (derived from trust), public service (from responsibility), open government (from open communication), and the promotion of an economy that benefits all and functions to promote these values, which are traditional progressive values in American politics.

God is the ultimate Strict Father figure. If we rely on God to tell us what to do, we are giving in to everything Occupy is against. We are buying into the framing and the entire paternalistic autocratic system that has caused most of the problems in the world. Occupy is against leaders. It is for equality, Democracy,and justice. That should be the only unifying theme we need. We need to reframe the issues. http://georgelakoff.com/2011/12/11/how- ... ll-street/

One side says that greed is good and government is bad and they have made it so, because they made government the # 1 father figure telling people, and other nations, what to do. If they don't they need to be punished or invaded. They think that the corporations are the good guys and that all they need is to be left alone.

A better frame is that we are all part of one big family (including mother earth) and that the function of government is to do good, to protect the people from the excesses of the corporations. The government can't be bad because the government is made of we the people. The government is part of our nurturing family. At least that is what we should be working for.
JerryB
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:20 pm


Return to Community Outreach

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron